Marriage (s), problems within from Warriors' Experience


  • Marriage (s), problems within
  • Altruism

Question:

Théun, I am VERY happy for all of us in Toltec Legacy.:) The preparation for the Greek course runs smoothly and I hope that the lasers are on their way (the RLT website is wonderful) also. The way you interact with us and your sense of humour makes me believe that you really enjoy Life there in Chile.:) Even if there are difficult challenges ahead of us your optimism and inspiration makes me stronger.

Théun, when you gave to me and my wife your guidance concerning our relationship I read them again and again more than 20 times! I had been thinking all the time about this and that, about what is wrong with me and what is wrong with her until I realized that I was thinking and analyzing things too much! LOL! Deep inside my heart I know that what you told us are true. In fact, I always knew it but I preferred to pretend that everything is okay. To be honest, I did not like what I heard from you but truth is not always nice and I have to admit that my marriage is not the illusion I create it to be. Now that I am disillusioned it's not nice but at least I know the truth. When I received your guidance my first thought was: "Okay, Théun gave me his guidance but where must I start from?"

You warned me that it will not be easy or even vaguely pleasant and this is true. I am losing my patience very often with my wife. I am angry with myself and with her. Whenever we start talking about our relationship she ends up crying, not talking to me, not looking at me and the end result is me, being unable to be detached, feeling sorry for her and feeling shit about making her cry. So, yes it is neither pleasant nor easy. I am nevertheless, determined to give it everything whatever the cost maybe. I have learned to love her throughout the years and my heart tells me to fight for our marriage.

You also told me that the other big issue I have to face is the issue of the trust between me and my wife. What I am currently doing in order to establish trust between us is to be as honest as possible with myself and with her even if I have to be ruthless, something that we both hate. What I saw is that she accepts my ruthlessness with humility contrary to the past when she screamed like crazy in order to defend her behavior! LOL! I know it will take time for us to build trust between us. Sometimes I feel discouraged and so much hurt while I am working with her while we interact but I believe I will finally make it. We all fall down once in a while, no?

You mentioned to my wife about her lack of passion between us. One of the many reasons that came to my mind is that we became too familiar with each other. Is this correct and how can me and my wife fight it?

The other thing you told me is not to blame myself for the actions of others. This is something I always did. It is very difficult for me to be detached so I am always placing all the blame to the one side. It's much easier for me to blame only myself or only the other person. It is difficult to accept that both parties are responsible for their actions, namely that it takes two to tango.

I assume that the reason for this behavior of mine is my fear to point out to others that are wrong because I am afraid of conflict. I avoid conflict because I have always, wrongly, believed that conflict is synonymous to violence. From the time my father used to beat me and after when I was beaten by my schoolmates because of disagreements while playing, I learned that the only way to avoid conflict was to agree to anything others were telling me, even if I truly knew they were bullshiting. LOL!

So my not-doing is clearly to acknowledge conflict as an alternative way to work with my wife in order to make our marriage work.:) It is clear to me from her behavior all these years that she also does not like conflict. As a result I see conflict a very good way right now for us to move on and learn. Whenever she "smells" that conflict is on the way she stops speaking to me and she doesn't look me in the eyes. She epidemically agrees with me even if she doesn't like what I am sharing with her. When I am asking her why she is doing this, her answer is that she feels hurt and cannot continue this kind of conversations. If I push her further she starts crying and leaves the room, a reaction from her side which I see as a way of manipulation because she knows that I am struggling to stay detached whenever I see tears in her eyes. She is very often complaining that she doesn't have time to work with herself much because of the many hours she is spending for housekeeping and for raising our son. I am trying not to blame her and see where my responsibility lies in all these. Can I have your view in this please? I want to give all my best and if I fail I will let her go. Power will show.

Théun, in my effort to be objective and see beyond my altruism I saw that when, in those rare occasions, my illusion is dispelled, I don't have the same feelings I thought I had for the person concerned and this goes especially for those whom I use to call my "friends." What I was calling "love" for a person it was in reality "love" for the illusion and the unrealistic expectations I had for him. I come to realize recently that I never really loved that person for what and who he really was.:( The warmth I have for others, even for strangers, is not as true as I used to believe. It's sometimes a very easy way for me to manipulate others or to avoid conflict. So I am not really a Good Shepherd after all! LOL! Are these unrealistic expectations, I have for people, coming from the desire to have life in my own terms?

Théun, there is something else I wanted to ask you. Many people came to me asking for my advice concerning their relationships (they know nothing about TL). The problem is that I do not feel that I am in a position to provide guidance plus is a huge responsibility which I am afraid to take. I alternatively share my experiences and my actions with them and that feels better. Sometimes when I am talking to people words are coming out of my mouth without thinking before and it seems like someone else is talking. It's a very weird experience because I am listening to myself! Also, in some occasions I feel peaceful and in others I feel drained with intense headaches. Why is this happening? What they are showing me for sure is to be more open with them and tell them more about my own marriage. For example I have never spoken to no one about my wife's infidelity because I am ashamed and afraid of criticizing me. In Greece cuckolding is the greatest shame but most of Greeks are proud for cuckolding one another! LOL!

Théun, do you feel at this point of my life that is useful for me to know my direction and predilection? I always thought I was a Stalker but my stalking skills are proved to be awful! LOL! I am starting to believe that I am a Dreamer but I am also not sure. The only thing I am sure is that I am not a Man of Action! LOL! I am acting only when circumstances force me to act! I will stop now because I sense that I became one more Greek tragedy.:)

Answer:

"I am losing my patience very often with my wife. I am angry with myself and with her. Whenever we start talking about our relationship she ends up crying, not talking to me, not looking at me and the end result is me, being unable to be detached, feeling sorry for her and feeling shit about making her cry. So, yes it is neither pleasant nor easy. I am nevertheless, determined to give it everything whatever the cost maybe."

Gosh! Are you after all this time still busy with all this? I would have thought that by now you would have had your heart to heart discussions and moved on. But it sounds like you are turning this into a mission of torture! LOL! It all sounds very heavy and grim! What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

My friend, when we have something to sort out, we get on with it, and we do it! And then once done it is over and we move on! We do not HARBOUR grudges, resentment, anger and frustration! If you do, then you are NOT being impeccable, but a right royal arsehole! Are you by any chance trying to punish your wife for the past? If so, why? What are you hoping to achieve by going on and on? There is no need for this. And there is really no need to turn your marriage into yet another epic Greek tragedy.

"I have learned to love her throughout the years and my heart tells me to fight for our marriage."

Well, if you love your wife, then how about showing her your love, instead of going on and on like a jilted lover? I don't understand why you have chosen to spin this out into such a mission of torture.

"What I am currently doing in order to establish trust between us is to be as honest as possible with myself and with her even if I have to be ruthless, something that we both hate."

Okay. I understand, but I am not convinced that you are being ruthless. It is rather that I suspect you are being cruel and unkind. And I say this because of what you share with me. And please do not forget that unless you are prepared to be ruthless with yourself, you have no right to be ruthless with others! What is good for the goose, is equally good for the gander!

"What I saw is that she accepts my ruthlessness with humility contrary to the past when she screamed like crazy in order to defend her behavior! LOL!"

This does NOT sound good at all! It is sounding more and more like you are BEATING your wife into submission, and this is NOT the way of the true male! The true male does not beat the female into submission! Yes, he is firm! Yes, he is clear! But no true male wants a doormat for a wife! Beating the female into submission means breaking her spirit, and where is the impeccability in that?

"Sometimes I feel discouraged and so much hurt......"

Listen, my friend, I am now really getting upset with you! Drop all the bloody Greek drama queen bit! WHAT hurt are you talking about? We all get hurt somewhere along the line, but we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and move on! We do not sit and DWELL upon being hurt! You are really starting to piss me off BIG time with all your whining about being so hard-done-by!

"You mentioned to Dora about her lack of passion between us. One of the many reasons that came to my mind is that we became too familiar with each other. Is this correct and how can me and Dora fight it?"

My friend, listen! Whilst you are going on and on like a jilted lover demanding his pound of flesh you can FORGET about your wife feeling passionate about you! What is wrong with you? Were so spoilt as a kid that you THINK you are God's gift to women? If your wife does not feel turned on by you, then the problem lies with YOU, and not with your wife! I have never met you, and so do not even know what you look like, but even if you are a very pretty boy, with a cute arse and hung like a horse, this is NOT what turns a female on within marriage. What turns the female on is the male's strength and his warmth! Not his body, or his mind! But what I am seeing here is the typically male chauvinistic attitude of "believing" that because you are such a handsome and or sexy male, every female just just be only to happy to lie down and spread her legs for you whenever you want her to. Get with the program, my friend, females do NOT respond to the male in this way! And from what I can see in your marriage right now is that your wife more than likely HATES herself each time she consents to having sex with you, for she feels no love and warmth from you towards her.

"It is difficult to accept that both parties are responsible for their actions, namely that it takes two to tango."

Well, then it is high time for you to learn to ACCEPT this, because it is a FACT, whether you like it or not! YOU called forth this challenge in your life, as much as did your wife! So will you kindly STOP all your bloody whining and moaning about being such a victim! Start taking some responsibility for what happened between you and your wife, and stop blaming HER for having been the ONLY guilty one in this mess!

"From the time my father used to beat me......"

You know, the way you WHINE I cannot help but to wish that your father had beaten you some more! Honestly, not even woe-men whine as much as you do!

"So my not-doing is clearly to acknowledge conflict as an alternative way to work with my wife in order to make our marriage work.:)"

No! I really feel that you have got hold of the wrong end of the stick here! From what you are sharing you are being FAR from impeccable in your actions! Instead you are coming across like a mean cruel son of a bitch! I see no warmth in what you are sharing, I see no love. I see no understanding. I see only non-stop whining and ager! I am not surprised your wife starts to cry! In fact if I were her I would have stopped crying by now and started hitting you with a bloody rolling pin!

"She epidemically agrees with me even if she doesn't like what I am sharing with her."

Well, what do you expect? You go on and on like a bloody Spanish Inquisitor!

"She is very often complaining that she doesn't have time to work with herself much because of the many hours she is spending for housekeeping and for raising our son."

No. This is not true! We should be working on ourselves ALL the time, no matter WHAT we are busy doing. So this much is pure bullshit!

"I come to realize recently that I never really loved that person for what and who he really was."

This much is good! At least here you are beginning to learn.

"Are these unrealistic expectations, I have for people, coming from the desire to have life in my own terms?"

No. Not really. It comes more from your desire to see only the good in others, and then feeling disappointed, or hurt, or rejected when they do not live up to your expectations. And it is this that is happening between you and your wife right now! You THOUGHT you married an angel! And then when Angie fell off the pedestal that YOU put her on, you became cold and heartless, and angry and upset that she did not live up to your expectations of her! But really, your wife is no little angel and it is therefore unrealistic of you to expect her to be an angel! So drop all the bloody drama, drop all of your expectations, and start looking at your wife as if this is the first time you have ever met her, for in truth, it IS the first time that you are meeting HER, rather than your expectations of her.

"Sometimes when I am talking to people words are coming out of my mouth without thinking before and it seems like someone else is talking."

This happens when you speak straight from the heart and do not allow the mind to interpret or to interfere.

"......in some occasions I feel peaceful and in others I feel drained with intense headaches. Why is this happening?"

When we speak from the heart we are always at peace afterwards, for we KNOW we spoke the truth. But your headaches and you feeling drained comes from having identified with the other person in some way. You must learn to be fully OPEN and yet to remain DETACHED and OBJECTIVE.

"I have never spoken to no one about my wife's infidelity......"

f< I am not sure that you CAN call this infidelity. You were not married when this happened, and so you cannot say that it was infidelity. Sure, you were already in a committed relationship, and in THIS sense it was infidelity. But hey, nowadays everybody sleeps with everyone, and no-one thinks twice about it, let alone calling it infidelity! So let us get real here, shall we? You say you like being ruthless, and that this works for you. And I said that what is good for the goose is equally good for the gander!

So, my little sunshine, realise that you were VERY happy to have sex with your wife even BEFORE you had married her! But what guarantee did she have that you would ever HONOUR the commitment you made when you bedded her, let alone that YOU were not busy sleeping around? Do you not think that it is just a wee bit arrogant of men to DEMAND that the women they are busy fucking should remain loyal to them when THEY themselves do not bother to HONOUR their commitments? Hmmmmm?

And let us be ruthlessly honest and call a spade a shovel, okay? To have sex with a woman that you have ZERO intention of committing to, is just fucking her for your own self-centred satisfaction! This is why I cannot quite figure out all your "hurt." The ONLY legitimate claim you have for feeling hurt is that your wife never told you up-front that she had also slept with another man whilst she was with you and before you got married. But, hey, what is good for the goose is equally good for the gander, sunshine! YOU see it as being perfectly NORMAL for YOU to fuck without being committed, so why is the female denied what YOU see as being YOUR right? COME ON, sunshine! Don't be such a prick, excuse the pun! If you want to fuck, then you must also take the consequences of your fucking! And you know what? What goes round, comes round! For this is the Law of Cause and Effect. So you want to fuck - you GET fucked sooner or later!

So if you TRULY love your wife, then I suggest that you get OFF your little high horse, eat some HUMBLE PIE, and ACKNOWLEDGE that you called forth this challenge in your life in order to LEARN something about yourself! And then go buy your wife some flowers and chocolate, give it to her with ALL the love in your heart, and get to KNOW her for being the woman that you married, and NOT the woman that you IDEALISED in your MIND because of the all the crap we Altruists DUMP on people! And, yes, I say "we" because my principle shortcoming is also Altruism! But I have learned to USE my Altruism to see people MUCH more OBJECTIVELY, and in doing so I have also learned to love them for who and what they ARE, and not because I EXPECT them to live up to any ILLUSIONS I may have of a perfect world populated by perfect people! Do I always get it right? No, damned you! I STILL fuck up terribly at times, but now when I fuck up, I KNOW that I have only myself to blame for not yet being good enough at my ongoing struggle in transmuting Altruism.

You know something, my friend? Let me share with you RUTHLESSLY! The biggest PROBLEM with Altruists, and note I say problem and not challenge, is that we are so quick to be sooooo hurt! Sob! Sob! Weep! Sob! How beastly people are! How can THEY do this to me when I LURVE them SOOOOOOO much!

Ugh!

As you are starting to discover! The Altruist's so called love is JUST bloody LURVE of an ILLUSION until we finally learn that the pain and the hurt we call forth is NOT because we are victims, but because we NEED to learn to LOVE, not LURVE, LOVE unconditionally! Do you get it? Good! Then stop lurving your wife to DEATH, and start using your pain and your hurt to LEARN to LOVE unconditionally! For unless you do, and here I speak directly from experience, then do NOT be surprised if you come home one day to find your wife in bed with your best friend! And if that were ever to happen, then you can go hang yourself for having been such a jerk, so pig-headed, so stubborn in NOT wanting to LEARN what the shortcoming Altruism teaches us.

Yes, of course, your wife and your best friend will STILL have their own issues to deal with, BUT........the point is because YOU failed to do what YOU needed to do, YOU called this forth in YOUR life! So although we cannot be held responsible for the ACTIONS of other people, we nevertheless are FULLY RESPONSIBLE for the CONSEQUENCES upon US of their actions! Do you grasp? If the actions of other people bring you a great deal of pain, then it is because YOU needed that pain in order to learn from it. So there is NO need for us to become all cute about Altruism! WE are the ones who sit with the ILLUSIONS, and so WE are the ones who have to have those illusions beaten out of us!

You speak of ruthlessness, my friend, and I already said to you that ruthlessness MUST start with yourself! FIRST learn to become utterly ruthless with yourself concerning your altruism, BEFORE you start being ruthless with others. For unless you do this, you will NOT be objective, but thoroughly SUBJECTIVE! And in your subjective view of the world, you will be demanding that people live up to your ILLUSIONS concerning life! So can you call that ruthlessness? No! It is nothing more than sheer unadulterated BULLSHIT, and very NASTY bullshit at that!

"Théun, do you feel at this point of my life that is useful for me to know my direction and predilection?"

I cannot yet connect well enough with you to ascertain your direction or predilection. But what I COULD connect with, is your bloody Altruism, because in being an Altruist myself, I can "smell" THAT stink from the other side of the planet! LOL!

Well, my little sunshine, angel and God's gift to women, I trust that this bit of ruthlessness from a fellow Altruist has at least popped SOME of your pretty bubbles! :)

With much love and laughter,
Théun